The Finances of Farming
A Conversation with Art Whaley
SEASON 1 | EPISODE 8
As trends drive people toward rural living, homesteading, and farming as a lifestyle choice, statistics show a dwindling agricultural workforce across America. This week, Liz is joined by long-time friend Art Whaley to investigate the realities of supporting farmers in today’s economy.
Art, who studied Agriculture Economics at University of Tennessee, is the Chief Lending Officer for Rural 1st, the consumer lending division of Farm Credit Mid-America. He shares his insight into the process of lending and financing for farmers and how extension agents like Farm Credit work to support farmers.
Liz and Art discuss why it’s important to teach our kids about agriculture, and how their own experiences with farming have changed their perspectives. Plus, what can we do as parents to make sure our families get the most well-balanced, healthy foods?
This episode is sponsored by Henderson Farms.
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Liz 0:00
Thank you guys for joining us today we want to thank our special sponsor today, Henderson farms for supporting this episode.
Art 0:09
Farmers are heroes. They truly are their heroes. But what I don't want people to do is underestimated because they are businessmen and women that are very intelligent, highly educated. And working hard is just you know, that's that's table stakes for what they go get to do.
Liz 0:37
All right. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of being different today. I have an old buddy of mine, art Wally, we have been friends for?
Art 0:48
I don't know, probably 10 years. When did you I remember when you first came in for the interview? Yeah. For loan officer training in the Knoxville Tennessee office. When was that? Because there was we had about three or four people we were interviewing, and you were one of the four and I was like, wow, I cannot compete against these.
Was that probably 2012? It seems like a lot longer, but
Liz 1:14
long time ago. Anyways, I found out that it was a small world because art was an Ag Econ major from UT just like me, just an old one. So he's got a couple of years on me.
Art 1:27
Yeah, I've got Yeah, probably about, I don't know, 15 or 20. Who knows, but yet, the Ag campus at Tennessee for me was home. So yeah, it's not where I started when I got when I moved to Knoxville and always knew I was going to be a volunteer. But it didn't take me very long to gravitate over to the campus at the University of Tennessee. Where do you start? I actually started in general business. I'm from severe evil, originally, one generation from a full time farm. Mom was an educator, dad was in real estate, but I always knew I was going to the University of Tennessee. Yeah, there wasn't any question. I just didn't know what I was gonna do. I wasn't one of those. One of those folks that had a dream to be a veterinarian or a doctor or anything else. I just wanted to get to Knoxville and be a volunteer. Luckily, as like I said, I started in general business. But it didn't take me very long to where I started asking all the right questions. And they're like, You need to get over to the Ag campus. And then once I got to the Ag campus, it was that balancing act of is it going to be animal science, which is where a lot of the folks that I hung around with and went to school with and actually some of them are fraternity brothers went the animal science route, but it was actually agricultural economics, Ag Economics, and I believe brim is that right? brim? Yep. I think that was right. I'm not sure. But when I got in the Ag Economics space, I knew I was like This is home.
Liz 3:02
Like its own little world. It's so different from the main campus, completely different.
Art 3:06
It was different. And whether it was Dr. Pumpelly, or Dr. Parks or Dr. Ray or Dr. Riley, Dr. Raleigh, and when I think about all the different professors, it's thought you had your you got to your own little Mount Rushmore of folks that were absolutely interested in you getting from whatever start whatever point you've started to the point where you know, you're graduating, go contribute in the world, right. And they pulled me up out of out of a place where I really wasn't sure what I wanted to go do. By the time it was all over that AG Ag Economics degree, and I turned right back around and came right back and got my master's in agricultural economics. It was actually the agribusiness. I think we were the first one through the through the through the program for the agribusiness masters. The only difference for me is I got an offer from a place called Farm Credit Mid America. And I fast tracked my masters so I could go ahead and take that job. And I
Liz 4:11
did the exact same thing. I did undergrad and Ag Econ and then masters and ag business and then straight into Farm Credit. So followed in your footsteps. Sure it was 2012
Art 4:21
Yeah. Wow. Okay. Time has flown but I thought it would find a little faster.
Liz 4:28
I know. I know. So your mom was in education. Your dad was in real estate. Did you grow up on a farm?
Art 4:35
We lived exactly since six tenths of a mile from my grandparents house. I'll call Paul Paul Henderson. Mo she was a beautician but my grandfather, I guess, and if I was going to be formal about it was a full time farmer with his brothers Henderson farms, beef cattle operation. They had been through a lot of other ag products but wound up being Commercial beef operation and sold sold calves twice a year. But you know pretty big farm for what you would consider I mean when you think about severe veal Tennessee, you think about Pigeon Forge and Dollywood and Gatlinburg and all the all the all the things that's centered around a tourist industry I mean you know 900 to 900 plus acre farm and severe county Tennessee is a pretty pretty big place so it is yeah they raised cattle for years
Liz 5:28
and explain why in mid to East Tennessee most people don't row crop I think people don't understand why we don't see that here.
Art 5:35
It's well if anybody has ever tried to Bush Hog a farm in East Tennessee versus if you were to go you know west on 40 to middler West Tennessee it's like I've always said Tennessee really from a typography standpoint to me is like three different states and our our our farm is very rolling I would emphasis on the rolling pasture you can roll over in a bush yes we could I mean I always say my Paul Paul it's it's amazing he Bush Hog that farm in the end because you know your great your grass fed cattle if we were grass fed grass fed before grass fed but got got cool but you know we've got river bottoms for you know they would cut hay. We leased the farm now to folks that that produce but yeah, it's it's it's a lot different topography, where I'm from.
Liz 6:31
Yeah, so basically, all he's saying is west of C is flat. So it's way easier to form row crops. We are farming in the mountains of East Tennessee, you got to have animals that can climb all over hills and people that can get their equipment, Oliver hills,
Art 6:44
it made a lot of sense to do to do cattle for sure. And that's what I'd say the
Liz 6:48
majority of anybody that's actually doing anything over here does correct. They might do a little bit of row cropping here and there, but nothing like the larger scale operations in West Tennessee.
Art 6:57
And I wouldn't have known without Farm Credit, was part of my farm credit career. I started as a loan officer training in Cookeville, Tennessee, and then they moved me to Lebanon, Tennessee. So I've I've served agriculture, whether they part time, full time, or, you know, our rural resident program and home lending from Lebanon, Tennessee, all the way to Johnson City. And it ranges you know, there's not a lot of heavy row crop there is more row crops and probably people would expect. No, just down the road. I live in Sevierville, Tennessee, there's some row crop and going on, just not what you would consider large scale. A lot of cattle. When I think about, you know, there's some large scale tomato producers as you get farther east. But I mean, that's a majority cattle. Yeah, I haven't looked at you know, the the commodity percentages, but that's that's that would be my guess.
Liz 7:51
Yeah. So is your sister still farming? Are you still farming at all? Are you I wouldn't
Art 7:55
call it farming. Like I said, we lease our farm, but my sister, and it was a product of COVID. But when we all came, I actually work for Farm Credit Mid America, I run rural first, which is the rural Residential Lending, Division of, of Farm Credit Mid America, which is home lender on acreage and rural space. And for part time and full time farmers and rural residents. But one of the things is that, you know, when when COVID hit we we all went home, basically overnight. So we have centralized teams in Louisville, Kentucky. And what I did was I traveled back and forth between the two, you know, when it was safe, you know, we didn't we didn't know everything, as the information came out. But I was in Tennessee a lot. And my sister and I got this broad idea. And the good thing is, is that it was more broad on my side, because I decided that she should start and start gardening. She should she should raise a garden for us. She decided we Yes, she way. I think there was some veil promises that I put in there about how much I would help all those things, but I can't remember I think she started out with half an acre and it has grown every year. And it's to the point now where by the time she you know grows it and you know, harvests and you know, whether the corn or tomatoes or green beans or okra, I mean she's going through the whole thing or the cycle where she's caning and everything else so it it exactly is a picture of the way I was raised. I mean from you know my mom, Pat balls garden, it was all the vegetables all all raised are out there. The beef came from the farm. I mean it was I was I was really lucky in the way I was raised by having that available right there and it's kind of bringing us back to home. Being able to have those vegetables straight from the garden on our ground and What I'm finding with with rural first and Farm Credit Mid America while it's not what I would consider production agriculture unless you get to a point where you're producing vegetables to sell it at a large scale, a lot of folks are doing the same thing. Yeah. And I can get I actually think you're gardening now is that correct?
Liz 10:17
Yeah. And it's I wanted to talk to you about this. People are calling it homesteading now, which I think is hilarious. We got to like, rebrand all these things that have been around for
Art 10:26
there's a lot of rebranding going on for sure.
Liz 10:29
Yeah. But it's people that you know, they're sick of the city life and the fast quickness and the stress that comes with it. So they want to be at home, getting kind of back to nature producing more their own food, knowing where it comes from. So yeah, I'm on 10 acres with some chickens and I'm talking about chickens. We have 11 chickens.
Art 10:49
We've I have not decided that and or been able to talk my sister into chickens yet
Liz 10:54
they're actually easy once you get them I mean, like you got to buy the coop and get them like for the brooder process and all that but once you get them set up like I only go down every other day to make sure their water thing is full and to feed them now. I take them scraps and all that so we're out there a lot but it's not as high maintenance as you think it's less maintenance than having a dog. Okay, yeah, so it's not that bad.
Art 11:17
What about the gardening How big is your garden
Liz 11:19
the garden is pretty big and the garden has been a big learning curve. There's a lot that goes into gardening if you want to like do it how we're trying to
Art 11:27
I could say for us as well but really for my sister for her it's been a big learning curve to Yeah, corn didn't come in the first year. Yeah, didn't do really well. She is prolific at green beans and okra cool. I don't know why but that those are two things that we've got a lot of
Liz 11:42
we killed it with radishes and lettuce last year. A lot. Our green beans, they all got eaten or peas got eaten. So you know, it's like keeping away the moles or whatever rabbits that are getting in there. I mean, even that's frustrating. Yeah,
Art 11:56
yeah. weeding the garden doing all those things. Yes. Okay. Is it is I think that return to what? I was lucky enough to be raised around. Yeah. I mean, it's really having the there's, there's no doubt in my mind, while I love just about every vegetable out there because I had access to him as a young child, I ate what my parents ate meat and three meat and four. And it was readily available. Yeah, it was a home cooked meal. And, you know, I get those home cooked meals when I'm in severe trouble. But you know, when I'm working in Louisville, Kentucky, it's not always it's probably heavy, heavy toward DoorDash. Yep. But even then I'm you know, I'm looking for the salad option. I'm looking for all those things that are a little bit on the healthier side. But yeah, I mean, I, I got to eat what my parents ate. And now with what my sister's doing and what we have available in ground to be able to raise a garden. You know, my niece and nephew get that opportunity. My brother in law and in the family does as well.
Liz 12:57
That's cool. So on the lending side of things, and for people who don't understand, a regular farmer cannot just go to your local bank like regions or SunTrust or BB and T and get a loan for farmland or equipment or anything that they need to do farming. So that's where Farm Credit, it's now rural versus come in. And that's what our does, that's what I used to do for a living is they provide the financing for those farmers are is more on the side of not gonna come hobby farmers, but not as much still huge large scale operations, right.
Art 13:30
production agriculture. Yeah, I think that's a good way. I mean, I typically, but we have just as many if not more home loans to to production, you know, part time. Yeah, full scale, part time farmers with with production risk. We also have rural residents. And then we also have those folks that just move outside the city that have that acreage that do choose to have, you know, five or 10, head of cattle, chickens garden, all those kinds of things that are that are more about a lifestyle choice.
Liz 14:03
And you've seen a huge uptick in that since COVID. Correct?
Art 14:07
Yes, there is there is what I would call them rural Migration. It's one of three things typically, it's somebody that truly has never lived in rural America just wants because of the amenities that are out there. Now they want to raise their kids on five or 10 acres. They want to build a be able to build a home which rural first is actually the consumer lending or rural Residential Lending brand of farm credit in America. And that's the that's the that's, that's our associations name. And there's multiple associations across the US that make up the Farm Credit System. And it's, it's been able to be a dependable source of credit for full time, part time farms, agribusiness and rural residents. And it's, you know, a big part of that mission. It's mission based. But when you think about what we do with rural first I mean, it's a lot of what we're seeing are those folks that don't have any background that are coming to rural America. Yes, me, which you've got to learn what it takes to make that transition to rural space. I mean, how do you build on 10 acres? How long does the driveway have to be? What about utilities? Yes. What about all those things, and then you've got to find a builder that's willing to build on 10 acres. So that's, that's a lot of what we're able to provide an education around on that. What we're also finding is are the folks that grew up around agriculture or engaged in agriculture, that went to the city worked for, you know, 20 or 30 years and then are moving back want to move back in retirement, or that are close to retirement that want to move back to where they grew up? In and around? And then you've got the folks that of course, I would consider, you know, our core customers that are actively engaged in agriculture, part time, full time, large scale producers, you know, and it could be smaller part time farmer up up to those large scale farms that, you know, they gotta have, they got to have a place to live to. Yeah. And you mentioned that we're different than the local banks. We're not We're not a conforming lender, right? That's not That's not where we play. That's not where we want to focus. I mean, and by
Liz 16:14
conforming lender, what he means is a house in a subdivision, just a regular loan that most people get, that's not what they're doing.
Art 16:21
Thank you for defining that because I wouldn't have done that as well as you did. We're talking about you know, a home on acreage, yet we're you legitimately can farm and do all the things that you choose to do with the garden and the cattle and, you know, and that can, again, be five to 10 acres, or it can be hundreds of acres. And you think about all the things that go with commercial agriculture, outbuildings, Farms, big acreage, I mean, it just doesn't
Liz 16:49
equipment.
Art 16:52
That's what Farm Credit and rural first are here for oh, man, it's it's really, truly to be able to support part time, full time and rural residents and rural space. Yeah, with home loans.
Liz 17:02
So I asked Andrew Griffith this in the last episode, how do you think that agriculture and farming has evolved in our country over the last 100 years? And specifically, how have the needs of farmers evolved over the last 100 years? A couple
Art 17:17
of ways I'm gonna go with this kind of thing that you sent me this question. I thought about it. And I was like, you know, how am I gonna answer this question? It's so broad it is. So broadly, I think about well just think about not did this plant a flag at around 1900. And you think about, you know, horse drawn, or, you know, mule and a wagon, right, all the way to a drone. And I mean, you think about that journey, and that evolution to a point where, you know, you know, we're using drones to, you know, for applications in row crop.
Liz 17:51
And that's a short amount of time, if you think about it's not a lot. Yeah, it's crazy,
Art 17:56
but it is, it is just the technology around agriculture, the fact that, you know, from the size and scale of operations, I mean, I don't know that people are as aware as I get to see every day that, you know, farmers are heroes, they are truly are their heroes. But what I don't want people to do is underestimate them, because they are businessmen and women. And they're smart, that are very intelligent, highly educated, and working hard is is just, you know, that's, that's table stakes for what they go get to do and have the privilege to do every day. But I mean, it's farming has grown to a point and I actually, I got my Google machine out. And I have a question for you a little pop quiz. Surprise. So in 1900, what percentage of the US workforce was employed in agriculture?
Liz 18:58
1900 I'd say 80% 41%. Interesting. Okay.
Art 19:04
So when you think about 41%, and by not teens, I'm going to give you a little give you a little I've got a stat for you, though, I say Hang on, hang on finish by 1970. That number was down to
Liz 19:20
4%. And now it's down to like, 1.3%.
Art 19:24
Go on it you took it Isn't that insane? Per USDA Economic Research, by 2000, it was below 2%.
Liz 19:32
And that less than 2% is feeding like 333 million people. It's crazy three times a day.
Art 19:41
And that's the thing people always ask me about, you know, local foods organic, not organic, you know, if it's, you know, from all the processing and all the things across the agriculture, I think we've got room for all of it. Yeah, I mean when you think about but it's less than 2% blew blew me away.
Liz 20:01
But that's kind of terrifying. Because what that tells me is that less than 2% of people know almost everything about how to produce our food. isn't that scary to you? Love it? Ah,
Art 20:16
that's tough for me to answer. It doesn't scare me. Because I get to interact with these folks that I was bragging on for all the right reasons. Just a minute ago. They're really good at what they do. Yeah, but they're very effective. And they've they've put scale to their operations. I mean, it doesn't scare me. And it's probably because I have the awareness I do in the ag industry, but
Liz 20:40
you're always surrounded by them. So in your mind, it's not 2%. But like, let me give you an example of what's 100% of what you do. But like, you know, we were with this kid, and we were doing a farm tour. And he's like, where are the chocolate cows. And I was like, What the heck, I was like, this kid is like 11 years old. And he does not know that there are not chocolate cows. That's terrifying to me. Because I feel like there's a generation now that as these older farmers are dying off with all this knowledge, all the knowledge, there's just less people disseminating the knowledge. And so our kids don't know this stuff. Even for me, like growing chickens. I've had all these questions about my chickens. I'd say 50 years ago, I could have gone out and easily got an answer. And I'm not trying to go through Google, I want to talk to people that have chickens. It's kind of hard to find people that I've had chickens for very long that can answer my questions.
Art 21:34
I couldn't answer them. Yeah, but what I would tell you, it does scare me. The lack of awareness and knowledge in general, about where people's food
Liz 21:44
comes from. Yeah. And that's why me Yeah, it's
Art 21:47
it's not that. Absolutely. And totally confident. And get to see it every day that you know, US agriculture is is doing a great job. Yeah, to be able to feed all of us. Oh, it's incredible. But we're I think the general public needs to lean in and do a little work on their own. I think it's just as important as learning geography.
Liz 22:10
Yeah. Parents need.
Art 22:12
Where does your food come from?
Liz 22:14
They don't want what is ag freezer section at Kroger. Correct. Your
Art 22:18
milk doesn't come from the grocery store? Right. You know, I think it's very important. If I were to say the one thing that I think needs needs to happen is just hopefully those folks getting proactive about learning and teaching their kids where their food comes from. Like, it's very important.
Liz 22:32
I agree. Okay, so what as this population has shrunk? What needs of farmers have you seen changing over the last 100 years, and this can be from a lending perspective or for anything?
Art 22:44
I mean, from a lending perspective, it's, it's, I think it's more important now than ever, that as a lender being that dependable source. And again, Farm Credit, Mid America is the, you know, true production agriculture side. I mean, we specialize in 2017. And that's when 2018 is when we actually launched the rural first lending brand, which again, is the home loan side. But for the farm credit side, what I see more than anything is the need for partnerships, true partnerships, and and in their lender, in the way we go about whether it be the combination of loan officers and our credit analyst in on farms, understanding the operations, because they are getting bigger and bigger. You know, when you think about the these folks, they are very attuned to what what they need. And typically, they'll tell us, we just, you know, your lenders, and out there that are serving agriculture have to have to listen. Yeah. So I think that partnership more than anything on farm, engaged, is the most important shift. You know, when you've got when you've got all these folks, I can't remember I think it was Andrew that said in a previous podcast, I was listening to it on the way down, actually listened to it. Thanks. But he did a really good job. But he talked about, you know, when you had all these smaller farms, you know, he equated that to maybe if that were were to remain that you might not have the level of technology that you have now. Right? I mean, it's just what the farmers need. They need they need that partnership, but also some lenders and partners that understand the sophistication of agriculture today. Because it is it a different game. It is it is truly, agribusiness is real.
Liz 24:35
Yes. And then do you see like, where is the gap being filled and education for these farmers as they're scaling up to these huge operations? Is that coming from universities like extension agents are is it coming from you guys or consultants like where do you see that happening? It's
Art 24:52
all the above. It's whether they whether it be their lenders, we provide a lot of educational programs from growing forward, which helps you know, the young beginning, small farmers to grow and start with a business plan and work up to where, you know, they're they're, they're, they're producing right alongside their peers in very profitable way in the ag industry. But we, whether it be through advocacy councils, whether it be through extension resources, but I think a lot of the land grant universities are doing a really good job to educate these folks that are coming to college. And now they're going to go right back out and produce, produce and take over their family operations and transition those operations that are likely big businesses today that are going to require that level of education to take it to the next level. But I would answer it by saying, Yeah, D or E, depending on your options for all of the above?
Liz 25:53
And does the USDA play a big part or not so much from what you say?
Art 25:57
I mean, yeah, I mean, from a research perspective, they do quite a bit. They're a great resource for us, just I mean, it's, it's, it's right at your fingertips, just about any stat or resource you need. The USDA provides, you know, and like I said, fire up the Google, you can get the information you need.
Liz 26:17
Yeah, from what I witnessed, and things have changed in the 10 years since I left Farm Credit, though, I saw a lot of farm credit, because I worked for them, obviously out there getting their hands dirty with the farmers, but also the extension agents, I think did an excellent job. A really good job. The
Art 26:34
extension agents do do a great job they're actively engaged in in just about anything and everything they can be from a local level. And it's usually the sole conservation. And I mean, all the other opportunities that you've got to get educated. But yeah, I think extension is a huge plays a huge role and educating the folks that are out there growing our food.
Liz 26:57
Yeah. All right. This is just a random question I had what is the national debt of farmers in America right now? Actually have? I figured you would
Art 27:05
total farm sector debt of 531 billion Holy crap. 531 billion? Oh, yep. And that was? Actually I have to quote that's, yeah, a year into 2022. According to the USDA. Alright, I didn't it didn't it is. Is that the same number you got?
Liz 27:25
Well, no, I didn't look it up. So I've seen numbers, the one I saw was in the four hundreds, but that was from like, two years ago. But what I haven't been able to figure out is, is the breakdown of that mainly, like land or equipment or operating. Do you have any clue what the breakdown is?
Art 27:42
Absolutely. Real Estate debt was around 376 billion and non real estate debt, which would be made up of machinery, equipment, etc? around 155 billion?
Liz 27:53
And are these farmers cash flowing? I would say yes, that is a ton of debt.
Art 28:01
It is a ton of debt. But commodity prices have been strong. They have for quite
Liz 28:06
a while also with real estate prices through the roof that can be helping things.
Art 28:09
One of the things you'd ask me was, you know, what are the risks that you know agriculture gonna face? I mean, yeah, private land prices land available? land availability in general. Yeah. It also input costs, input availability. Yeah, just from the issues around that. I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot that there's always a lot facing farmers farmers,
Liz 28:33
it could be the weather that wipes out their crop, you know,
Art 28:37
it's always a huge factor. But I mean, there's a lot of things down the road but but, you know, the agricultural economy has been good for a while. And, you know, I feel like our farmers are producing an operating really well within it. But there's all I knew you were coming with a but so
Liz 28:54
you gotta keep growing. Because if you're just mid to small size, you're you can't keep up with it.
Art 29:00
It's, you know, consolidation is real. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just reality agricultural industry. It's, it's what we're seeing. It's what we're experiencing. And as far as I don't expect that to stop
Liz 29:13
now, especially as technology continues to advance it's going to keep going the way
Art 29:17
it is. Yeah. When you step on these operations now it's it's it's it's impressive.
Liz 29:22
I mean, tell me on a 4000 acre row cropping operation in West Tennessee, how much does it Columbine cost? Now?
Art 29:31
I couldn't I couldn't even quote you a price. But $100,000 It says north of $500,000 Depending on the size, I mean, you know now with the technology of you know, not even needing a human to run the cab that's, that's, that's,
Liz 29:49
that's crazy. And that's changed since I was doing it. So within 10 years, like 10 years ago, they had the computers in the cab and they thought that was all the rage. That was a huge deal. Now you don't even have to have the humans Sitting in the cab anymore. It's crazy.
Art 30:01
Yeah. But that's that's the scale they're at. And I mean, I don't get the opportunity. I think it's been a while it's been a while for sure. Since mostly dealing with home lending now. And, and, you know, like I said, a home lender on acreage and rural space. And we're, we're partnering with other Farm Credit System entities, and helping them serve their mission to I haven't had as much opportunity really at all to be on a lot of those farms. And I do miss that. But I mean, as far as equipment equipment is very expensive.
Liz 30:31
Oh, yeah. How much? And what parts of farming are subsidized by the government? And are there strings attached to getting this money? Like, they have to follow green practices, etc, etc.
Art 30:44
And I've looked, I just did some research around it just because I didn't want to get surprised. I mean, and, you know, the major subsidies are the five commodity crops, which were no surprise, I mean, corn, soybeans, wheat, cotton and rice. That's that's not any surprise. There are other programs that exist for sugar dairy farmers, the meat industry indirectly benefits. But I mean, you know, there are FSA regulations around eligibility related to adjusted gross income, active farming engagement type of ground you're producing and others. I mean, I don't those subsidies will continue. Of course, everybody's wondering, you know, what happens with the next farm bill? Very important. When you think about
Liz 31:29
they have to continue. Right? There's no option.
Art 31:33
We need another farm bill. So I mean, that's that's how I would answer that. Yeah. It's it's i i know it's going to take our our politicians going across and I'm working across the aisle, I'm gonna suddenly need to go to.
Liz 31:53
It's interesting to me, because people, you know, they get all frazzled and upset and opinionated about these things. But it's just like the debt ceiling in America, you think they're really not going to raise the debt ceiling? Yeah, you think they're going to take away subsidies? Not a chance?
Art 32:09
Well, you can say, No, I mean, it's it's, I don't know. I mean, I'm definitely a huge supporter, obviously, for agriculture. So they they make sense? Well,
Liz 32:23
they have to because our farmers had been reliant upon them for so long now. So if you take them away, it doesn't work the way that our system is set up now.
Art 32:31
And that's, that's, that's something that hopefully, we won't have to worry about.
Liz 32:36
Yep. Okay, this is the one I'm most interested in how much of our food is imported, or exported? And what types of food are imported the most? Okay, I
Art 32:46
looked at this, and it even surprised me, you know, us typically support exports. It's a net exporter. But I've got another pop quiz for you. 2022. Would you say? How many? How much do you think we imported versus exported?
Liz 33:06
As like a percentage of our food? Just say dollars, dollars? Oh, gosh,
Art 33:11
I'll give you a little bit of a clue. It was about a wash. Really, it was about a wash what we imported versus what we export, I don't know a billion dollars worth of food. So in 2022, ag exports were at 196 billion. And imports were 209 billion. The US Top food exports were coin corn, soybeans and wheat. Okay, the top imports are unprepared fruits. No surprise, right. I'm gonna think I think Andrew talked about that Grain and Feed vegetables, vegetables, and red meat per the USDA. Were surprises for you on that.
Liz 33:48
Not really, where's our red meat coming from the most do? You know?
Art 33:52
I don't I didn't look it up. I mean, I would assume Brazil, but that's that's a guess.
Liz 33:57
Okay. Now, that's not surprising to me at all. Um, I think that the average American probably assumes that more of their fruits and vegetables are grown here than actually are though. Would you agree with that?
Art 34:11
Yes. I mean, it but you know, from the standpoint of I don't think people have real awareness what we're importing and I mean, is is those numbers and dollars would tell you quite a lot. Yes, tons. And you know, our ag economy is heavily dependent on what we're able to export. So I mean, it's, it's, it's the I don't think they realize the gender that's again, that's why I'll go back to the fact they need to understand where their food comes from.
Liz 34:36
Right. Here's a little example of just like, I have been an ag since college and I don't even know this stuff. So with eggs now that we're we've got chickens. I didn't know that once the chicken lays the egg. If you don't wash the egg and you just leave it sitting on the counter. It'll last for like five weeks. Did you know that?
Art 34:55
Yes, I actually traveled to South America with University of Tennessee. He, and a couple of the places we went the stores had them out. Just sitting out. Oh, yeah. And I can remember thinking I'm not. And I looked it up. I was like, Oh, yeah. Okay. So that's basically, because of the way we handle them. It makes them much more perishable,
Liz 35:19
because they wash them. And that coating comes off and
Art 35:22
goes, we want them to look good. Exactly. And it's crazy, though. And so then I was like, Well, how do you how do you store your eggs? Well, my
Liz 35:29
chickens haven't started producing yet, but they're gonna go on the counter.
I want you to have these chickens. Five months. Okay, you got a little boys. Yeah. If they don't start saying though, I'm gonna get him here on a clock. But just keep the kids inside when you
supposedly Walmart just sells these things that you don't have to like, block them anymore. You just stick them in and spin around, it pulls all the feathers off. So who knew? Pretty simple.
Art 36:00
Hey, are making something for everything
Liz 36:02
I know. But what that showed to me when I found that out, as I was like, Well, how many other of our fruits and vegetables do we think have this very short shelf life, but they really don't. They're just in transit from other countries for forever. And we just don't understand where they're coming from.
Art 36:21
I can tell you with some of the folks that I worked with, and tomato industry, you'd be I can't remember the actual time but you'd be surprised. You know, they usually ship those tomatoes green. And they arrive at a certain color. But it's it's pretty long shelf life. I can think of apples. Yeah. I mean, you can you can look that up. I mean, those It blows my mind the shelf life of an apple.
Liz 36:46
Yeah. But then by the time you get it, you got like a week until it's brown. So it's like, Well, how long has it been since thing this thing was picked? You know,
Art 36:53
I told you agriculture knows what they're doing. They do. We don't?
Liz 36:58
Clearly. All right, so next question. As parents, what can we do to make sure our families are getting the most well balanced, healthy foods that we can? Well,
Art 37:10
that's I don't I will make this announcement. I don't have kids. So you know, it's one of those things where I have to always have that disclaimer, all I can draw on is the way I was raised. And I ate what my parents ate. Yeah. And I don't want to take away we live in a great country with all these options for food, but when what I've found is that as I've watched a friends who have children, my sister, and her husband and others across, you know, across across the family when you provide options, those options typically as as I've seen when a child chooses It's chicken and fries, yeah, or it's pizza, or it's all the things that taste good right now. I can I can just tell you from my own experience, I wouldn't point anybody in one direction or another. I can tell you because I ate well my parents ate as well I love just about every vegetable I can think of Yeah, you don't have to have a garden to have good food. It's great. It makes me feel better but your hands and dirt Are you know and being able to go to the you know, bacon farms and white pine Tennessee and getting getting our beef and knowing where that comes from. But I mean, you don't have to eat local that's the great thing about what's available in the United States. You know, I'm very comfortable when I don't have those as options to go to Food City or Kroger or or any of the any and all of the grocery stores. I think I think potentially been you know, eaten which parents eat and those being healthier options I think is would be would be a good idea that it's not real complicated when you get down to it. Sometimes you sometimes we all get too many options. And we choose we don't choose the right the right thing to eat or drink or anything else that would be part of it. The other thing is that be inclusive enough and be open enough to where organics okay. Anything you get that's, that's non organic, I feel comfortable in eating it. You know, I choose both me and okay and inclusive the fact that we've got room for all of that in agriculture. And it's all good. Whether you depending on what you believe whether you eat meat or not, are fantastic options on both sides of the aisle. So
Liz 39:39
like grass fed is better if you can get it Do you have an opinion on
Art 39:44
it? It's definitely more lean. It's more lean beef and that's typically what I choose. What I was what I what I know what I what I mean. I'm also very happy to go into a restaurant when I have an opportunity and eat something that I know was not grass fed, right? Because it takes It's good. Yeah. So but grass fed is usually what I choose. Just because it's what a lot. Gotcha.
Liz 40:07
I think the options thing is pretty intuitive of you for not having children because I don't know what idiot psychologist out there said, Oh, you need to let your three year old decide what his diet is going to be. But I've tried that and it does not work. And now I have Mac my three year old, he is picky as hell and I can't stand it. My one year old, she eats whatever I give her. I don't give her an option. I just enjoy eat it. And so I guess part of it is probably like a personality thing. But I gave my son way too many options. I should have just said you're eating this. And if you don't eat it, you go to bed hungry.
Art 40:41
That's what I got. Yeah, meats gonna remember the we did. And so that's the thing is that just because I had the fret there close and it was from pebbles farm. It doesn't mean it was Tinder, right? I mean, we ate a lot of cute steak ate a lot of I mean, I've well, back then I was like, oh keepsake again. But now I'd love to have it. I mean, it's meatloaf and a lot of ground beef and all those things and hamburgers. I didn't realize what I had. But now it's like, wow. But it's there are a lot of options as long as you take the time and prepare it as long as but the one thing I can tell you is while I haven't had children of my own, I've seen the battles. I've seen what all those options present. And I don't know, just I think by eating what you're eating what your parents eat, or, you know, everybody eating together as well. I mean, it's not a bad choice. But I mean, there's a lot of great food available. Yeah, I mean, one, why not,
Liz 41:42
you can give a kid an option on what color underwear he wants to wear. But you shouldn't give him an option between vegetables and chicken nuggets and mac and cheese.
Art 41:50
I mean, it's and I would assume it's, it's okay to have chicken nuggets once a week, twice a week,
Liz 41:55
every meal. And as a parent, we need to be parents and be like the city psychologist who came up with this, you need to give your kid the options for all their meals probably didn't have kids.
Art 42:05
So if the man asked you a question, have you ever? I mean, did you did you try that with your your son? Were you were you let him eat whatever he wanted?
Liz 42:14
No. So I would always like put down like, this is what we're eating. What happened with me was because I was working so much. I would put the healthy food down. He would say no, I don't want this and either me or my husband would given because we were so tired at the end of the day and be like exhausted. What will you eat then? And that's when it was like okay, we'll give him whatever we know we'll eat which would be the chicken nuggets or the pouches? There's pouch things are what he loves. And so butter and jelly. Oh no, they have I mean, it's got like vegetables and stuff. And just like applesauce pouches, like that kind of stuff. But I'm where I should have just put my foot down. And now I'm trying to do it. He's older, it's harder because he can like talk to me and like, give me the bird. You know? He's like, No, I'm like, listen, you're going to eat these beans and rice and chicken I made for dinner or you're going to bed and he'll say go to bed. And I'm like, oh my god, like you are wearing me out as you go to bed. If my husband has anything to do with it, no, he gets the pouch because Luke can't stay in it for him to like not have something to eat. But I'm like a couple times I've sent him to bed I have. And I listened to this radio show the other day. And it was this mom, she has like six kids. And she said, for me, I'm only going to make what I'm going to make because I've taken the time to prepare it. I bought the food, all that and if my kids don't eat it, not only if they don't eat it, if they bitch about it. The next day, I'm going to make one pan of white rice. And that's what the whole family gets to eat for the day. It's just plain white rice. And I was like, Oh, she's Bhavish I think that's an awesome idea. Yeah, because wouldn't you eat then what your mom made? Yeah, I would.
Art 43:50
Absolutely. I did. Anyway, so yeah, but I mean, I when I didn't want to eat it, you were gonna sit there until you did. I know. And when I look back now, I wouldn't have grown up any other way. Yeah, I was really really lucky to get to remember the last house in the city limits as I can remember on the other side of that was I mean, a rural playground I mean, with with the farm and a half mile down the road grandparents are out there, you know, he's, you know, the farm was with his three other brothers. Yeah. And I mean, everybody lived on that road. And I mean, it's just just couldn't be any better.
Liz 44:27
Well, now you live in the city. You're a big city boy. Are you gonna retire out to the farm one day are you gonna stay in the car
Art 44:33
with you know, with rural first and what I've got to do there we I lead teams and I'm in Louisville, Kentucky during the week predominantly. I come back every weekend I can because I want to be in my house in East Tennessee. I want to be close to the farm. I want to be in you know, rural America whenever as much as I can. But I mean I I've I've I have become a customed to all the amenities in Louisville, Kentucky, I mean, it's really a great town. There's a lot of things to do. But I mean, it's it's always that thing when it gets toward Friday, I want to go want to go home to East Tennessee I want to be, I want to be on or close to the farm. So I mean, that's the way I was raised. And I don't know that I'll ever be any different.
Liz 45:21
It's funny because I grew up not on the farm, but in the country. And I could not wait to get out of there. I was like, I'm out of here. I'm not hanging around these people, I'm going to move to a big city. I lived in Nashville for almost 10 years. And now I'm like, back in East Tennessee. And now that I'm getting older, I'm like, actually, I want to buy a farm. I'm like, what has changed in me, like I used to hate this way of living. And now I'm like, that's all that I want is just to like get away from the city stuff. It just drives me crazy. Think about
Art 45:51
the just what you put yourself through and what you go through to make sure that whatever job you choose, and all the things that you're wrapped up in is, you know, an adult and a parent and a human being whether you know, likely go to church and likely to, you know, be involved in community things, kids, sports, all those kinds of things. I just for whatever reason, when it gets toward the weekend, it just makes me feel good. When I'm looking forward to the end. Chase Tennessee being in the country. It's something I can absolutely. Understand. It's hard for me to explain.
Liz 46:31
Yeah, no, I get it completely. It is hard to explain, though. You appreciate those unspoken things that you get from just being out like in the peace and quiet of nature. And for me,
Art 46:42
the thing, that's the thing about what I get to do every day, yeah, because I mean, that's, that's who we're serving. That's, that's my customer buys to people just like me, and that's pretty daggone cool.
Liz 46:51
It is cool. And for me now, there's like I talked to Andrew about this, but so many things, I think that people didn't realize kids learned from being in the country playing outside, you know, digging in the dirt, all these things that are just being lost. Now, you just can't replicate that in a city. And so it's hard to put like $1 dollar value on that or explain what those things are, they're learning but I see that it's invaluable. When I spend more time with my kids outside, they are so much better behaved than when we're inside watch and blue and all these stupid shows and all that stuff, you know, but being
Art 47:24
outside is getting that opportunity to grow up. And I'm like you said you move your kids and your family to 10 acres outside the city limits. I mean, I don't know, if you've got that choice and got that opportunity. It's, it's, it's an awesome way to live.
Liz 47:39
It is. Okay, so any other things that you can recommend for parents to get more involved in ag, or just, you know, exposing their kids to that lifestyle,
Art 47:50
you're going to hear these things. I mean, four h the four H program, we are Farm Credit in America and explain what four H is for H is a program and or an organization that gets kids involved in agriculture. And I mean, from my experience with it, it was it's something we we support and or sponsor at at a local level. And as a company, a lot of what my experience centered around was, you know, showing showing the farm animals. Did you do it when you were a little bit, but not to any success? I wasn't I wasn't good at it. But the folks around me were really good at it before he has that opportunity around ag education. And it gets it gets folks that you know, aren't involved in farming, or have a farm background or that knowledge, the opportunity to get involved.
Liz 48:43
And can kids do that just in any public school?
Art 48:46
I can't I'm not sure. I mean, it's usually
Liz 48:49
because I remember like I lived in the country and kids could do it. But I don't know if like living in the city, if you can do that. I don't
Art 48:55
know that you could have I don't know how Yeah. You might want to put something in your disclaimer or whatever. I can't remember but I remember four h was something that wanted extension supported. I think so. I'm trying to figure I can't remember how they signed me up. I just know mom and dad did they did it. Okay. And then of course we go to all these events, but you might look at that. Anyway, but the other organization that I know were heavily involved in and that's that's that gets into the high school. The high school age is the you know, Future Farmers of America. FFA. And if I were to tell you, I can't count the number of folks that were involved in FFA whether they had an ag background or not, that we've hired a farm credit Mid American serve agriculture today in our company and our organization and, you know, across the Farm Credit System, if I were to say, you know, another organization that we support fully is FFA and rightfully so, they teach kids from Whether it be presentation skills, interview skills across the board. It's amazing what that organization provides as far as supporting children and giving them the opportunity to get involved, get involved in agriculture, but also the education around Hey, how do you take all that knowledge and everything else and put it together and go out and interview and potentially work for a farm credit Mid America one day? Yeah. So I'm a huge fan of the FFA.
Liz 50:29
So for kids, though, like, I guess the way I see it, since I didn't grow up on a farm, I would have never done FFA because I didn't think when I was a kid, like I was gonna go into farming or anything like that. And I went to a private school. So forage was like not an option for me or not, that I know of, I guess I could do more research and see if it was. So do you think that families like that, that have kids in private school or deep in the city? Like, do they need to be going out and finding local farms? And you know, what do you recommend for that?
Art 50:59
I don't know. What I would say is specific to ag education in inner cities. I think there's got to be some work done there. But I mean, as far as full time, or excuse me, Future Farmers of America, there has to be a chapter local high school for you to get involved in. Right. And I'm not sure that there's an active chapter at any or all of those schools. So I think I think that's, that's that's a true gap.
Liz 51:27
It's a big gap. Because I feel like if you grew up in ag to any extent, then you can find your way into learning about this stuff. But if you didn't, or if you're in a city, it's difficult.
Art 51:37
It's hard for me to tell you because I don't know the answer. Yes, I always had access. Yeah,
Liz 51:41
I didn't lose. So it is a gap. And then it's also like, I think a lot of it comes down to income to you know, like, if you have more money, you can take your kids and drive an hour and go out to a strawberry picking farm. But if you're in rural or not rural, and you know, lower income in a city, like you don't have money to do those things. So it's just hard to learn, like, I don't know, of any, like TV programs or anything like that, that are teaching kids anything. I feel like there's a large gap. And that's just kind of sad to me.
Art 52:11
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that's something that's got to be again, I think it's as important to know where your food comes from and educate on agriculture no matter. Yeah, no matter the school district, city or not city. That's think that's something we've got to educate our kids on. Again, I'm not an educator. So it's one of those things where it's hard for me to answer how to solve it. Right. But I definitely support that. And I'm lucky enough to be one of those kids. While you know, it wasn't tied to money. When I grew up, it was more around, you know, what access? Did you have? I mean, from from before age standpoint, I mean, all I knew is my parents signed me up for it. Well, I signed up for
Liz 52:53
the country. Yeah, the country, you know, so it probably depends on your geographic location. But yeah, I think that's kind of interesting. And so with the way I see it is I'm like, Oh, the government is clearly not solving this issue. So parents need to do be proactive about it, you know,
Art 53:07
yeah. But one of the things I do know is that, you know, we sponsored and farm credits a huge sponsor of and around educational programs where you go out to the farm, and it's a part of the curriculum to where, you know, you do get to learn where your food comes from. Yeah. But I don't know how prevalent that is in, you know, in city based schools. Yeah, I think it's a great question.
Liz 53:31
I'm gonna dig in to that.
Art 53:34
You never let anything. This is one that I think has some merit. So
Liz 53:40
yeah, I think so too, just because as fewer and fewer people are producing our food, less and less people know where it's coming from. So parents need to get out there. Take your kids to farms, you know, be outside if you want to come to my house and play with chickens comply with chickens.
Art 53:56
That's true. And I just think around the farms around East Tennessee Sweetwater? Yeah, cruise Farms is awesome cruise farms. I'm thinking of I'm trying to think of all the others. I mean, they they've got an educational component. Yeah. And you go out, I think that's one of the best things about the agri tourism boom. Where hopefully, there'll be more and more opportunities for kids to be educated people to be educated the general public about what agriculture is and where food comes from. i We're very supportive of those and have a lot of those folks as customers because again, they've got throughput and ag production going on so we're able to help finance some of that too, but it's there's a lot of gaps that exist still got some work to do.
Liz 54:42
We do. Well, thank you for doing this today. Do you have any other knowledge bombs? You want to draw up any other good numbers you came up with?
Art 54:50
No, I just I wanted to try to stump you. But you did. Thank you for giving me the heads up on the questions. I mean, my every day is not production agriculture anymore. How is not serving production agriculture with the exception of what we do on the residential side. So it was good to test my knowledge versus Google and see what the USDA had to either prove me route or prove me wrong on things like imports and exports. It reminded me how much I need to be aware of, and do some research and study and learning. So it was pretty cool. But I mean, as far as any knowledge drops, I mean, I'm just lucky to get to do what I do. Yeah, with rural first and Farm Credit Mid America. I can't believe it's been that long since you've interviewed that first time. But I've got almost 23 years in now and have no desire to do anything outside of serving rural American agriculture.
Liz 55:41
Yeah, Farm Credit is was a great place to work. I learned so much from them and the farmers that are out there that utilize them are lucky to have you guys.
Art 55:48
So yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah.
Liz 55:51
Thanks for coming. All right, guys. If you have any questions or comments, you can check me out at Liz durham.com. And if you have time, go rate and review us on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. See you next time. Being different with Liz Durham is a palm tree pod CO production it's produced and edited by Anthony Palmer. Thanks to Emily miles for digital support. The content for this episode is created by me Liz Durham.