Caring for Adults with Special Needs
A Conversation About Resources in Tennessee with Michael Collins
SEASON 1 | EPISODE 11
Finding resources and support systems can be challenging for parents and caregivers, especially when they age out of the traditional school system. Michael Collins, the chief financial officer at Sertoma Center Incorporated, has dedicated his career to providing services for adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
Michael is also a member of the Governor's Council on Autism Spectrum Disorder and has served on the East Tennessee Chapter of the Autism Society of America. In this episode of Being Different, Michael joins our host Liz Durham to discuss his work at Sertoma, challenges in adult care, and what he’s learned from his personal experience.
Plus, they explore ways in which people who don’t have kids with disabilities can support their friends who do. The simplest efforts like listening, offering help, and learning more can make an enormous difference in their lives.
This is an important episode full of resources. If you know someone who could benefit from tuning in, please share. Special thanks to Michael for helping support our Tennessee families who need it most.
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Being Different with Liz Durham is a Palm Tree Pod Co. production
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Liz 0:30
All right. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of being different. I am really excited today I have Michael Collins here with us. And he is with Sertoma. So he is going to help educate us and hopefully give us some resources on special needs and how that looks for adults in Tennessee.
And hopefully, we can just learn more from this. So thank you, Michael, for being here. Really, really appreciate it.
Michael 0:54
My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to have an opportunity to talk and share the story of having an adult child in Tennessee. So yeah, this will
Liz 1:02
be great. Can you tell us what your current role is and what you do and what the organization does specific sure that you don't know.
Michael 1:09
So, so I work for the St. Thomas center Incorporated. Everybody just kind of knows that Esther coma, but I'm the chief financial officer there. My responsibilities are pretty much anything with $1 sign in front of it. You know, that includes payroll. If we purchase a new vehicle, we have a large fleet or construct a new home, you know, track those costs, manage those costs. And then outside of Sertoma, I sit on the Governor's Council on autism spectrum disorder. I was first appointed by Governor Haslam in my first term. I'm in my second term now. reappointed by Governor Lee, and I have about a year left for all for that. But in the past, I have served on the East Tennessee chapter of the Autism Society of America a couple of different times. And in a couple other little nonprofit things I've dabbled in, but But it's for Toma, my role there is primarily just to manage the financial assets and kind of make sure that we're healthy and sound.
Liz 2:09
Gotcha. And what specifically does their tema do?
Michael 2:13
Sir toma is a provider agency in Tennessee, there are numerous provider agencies in Tennessee, some are nonprofits, some are for profit. And what each of them do is provide services for adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities under a contract with Tennessee, so the Tennessee has a department called the Department of Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities, and they manage the Medicaid waivers that provides two thirds of the funding for the services that we that we do. And then TennCare also has a program called ECF. employment and community first, that is almost the same thing. It's funded a little differently. But it provides, it pays for services in the same way 1/3, two thirds split, and Sertoma does residential housing, we have about 34 houses in Knox County. And we own most of those. But not all some of the homes are owned by individuals that we provide services for some are third party leases, where they're written from a landlord. And we provide support to those homes up to their level of need 24 hours a day. So some of the individuals may have significant medical needs where we actually provide nursing staff that can help with maybe there's a feeding tube involved or some other things, and some might be very capable, and they just need help to make sure they got the oven turned off when they were done cooking dinner and maybe just navigate some challenges that you were I would be able to do ourselves on a daily basis.
Liz 3:45
Okay, so this is funded by TennCare and Medicaid. It is. And then do you guys have fundraisers and stuff like that you do have outside? Yeah, so
Michael 3:53
well, because we're nonprofit, we can raise money, okay. And we do fundraisers. And we can we can do that to supplement what we do. So for example, the state of Tennessee pays us a certain rate for services. And embedded in that they tell us actually what to pay our direct care providers. They're called DSPs direct support professionals. So that's the people that are in hands on in providing care on a daily basis. And it's, it can be a challenge to try and have someone work for you at 1375 an hour, which is the current rate that the state funds. So we fundraise and we're able to pay a little more than that, but we still still struggle, quite frankly, we're 70 staff short right now, and, and that that definitely creates some challenges for us. But But yeah, the state pays for every dollar they put in the Feds match it with $2. Okay, that comes from Medicaid, essentially.
Liz 4:51
Okay. So we'll explain to me that typically how it works right now is from ages three to 21. The school system So who is the main provider? That's exactly right. And so then once a child turns 21, what happens after that?
Michael 5:07
Well, it really depends upon the parents knowledge in many cases. So throughout school, and we'll probably talked about this, a child will have what's called an IEP, an individual education plan, my son, Jacob had one, all throughout school, it's updated every year or more often, if necessary. Because the doctor do that or who a doctor can sit in on that and be a part of that. Typically, it's it's key stakeholders at the school. So it might be the principal, special ed teacher, sometimes it can be you it can be outside sources, you can bring your attorney if you want to. Or if you've got a psychiatrist, psychologist, whatever the case may be. And you y'all discuss what the and it literally is that it's an individual education plan. So it says, For general education, we all know how it works, you go to school, you do what the teacher says, you do the homework, and you turn it back in the next day. For an individual education plan, it differs in that it's very specifically designed for the needs and capabilities of that specific child. So all an IEP is, is that until they reach age 22. When they roll out of that, then they can go into services with an agency like Sertoma. And they have an AI SP, which is an individual support plan. It's very similar, except it doesn't have the education component to it, it still has the details on how we provide specific care what the individual's specific needs are, even how they manage money. So there's a personal funds policy that the state, the state established and we maintain, and even has a spinning hierarchy of needs in terms of how we spend their money. Okay, so first thing is food, shelter, clothing, you know, medical needs all these things before they can get down to where they can actually spend their money on wants and desires. You know, maybe it's a DVD or a new pair of shoes or whatever. But when a when a child ages out of the school system, which can be right up to age 22. Then services generally can be delivered through a few different organizations, so provider agencies like us, and then there's an organization called voc rehab that works exclusively on employment services. But we at Sur toma can actually provide services in conjunction with Voc Rehab, as well. And we do we have three Project SEARCH locations that are Voc Rehab funded and they are basically internships for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. It's Park West hospital, Children's Hospital, and Fort Sanders regional so. So at those three hospitals, we have these Project SEARCH programs, and we have individuals coming in every six months or so doing internships, learning job skills, and learning what it's like to work in an employment environment. So
Liz 7:55
Gotcha. Do you guys help? Like if somebody once they're in your care is not the right word? And that's okay. And you develop that plan for them? Is there funding for like if they need special therapists and like that kind of stuff? Or how does that work if
Michael 8:11
there can be so it's a little bit it's a little bit convoluted in how it works. So and as I said, there are two different kinds of delivery methods. They're working to converge those into one that you see f and d, IDD converge and are working to converge into one but right now, the biggest one is the IDD. So that's Medicaid waivers. And that's federal money set aside to provide the services and the state has to match $1. And when they do that, so when an individual comes into services, they have a personal budget. A budget cap, like Jacobs budget right now is $36,000 a year. Okay, so, so any services he gets stop at $36,000 a year and we've been fortunate Jacob is pretty highly functional and doesn't need residential services, which are the most expensive, of course,
Liz 9:03
do this do residential fall under that 36,000? Yeah.
Michael 9:07
So if an individual hits that cap, then then it does result in not a discontinuation of services, because the caps are generally set to provide them the most important services, residential, maybe employment, that kind of thing. But then outside of that, too, they'll have Medicaid or teen care, and that will help fund for other services outside of what we do, which might be more medically specific services. If you're seeing a psychiatrist or or dentist or, you know, have an appendix removed, that kind of thing. So
Liz 9:45
this is a specific thing, but I'm sure there's other disabilities that have rising numbers too, with autism numbers rising the way that they are. One thing that I'm thinking of is like there's going to be more people that are in need, the services are more dollars being allocated to this from Washington? Or is more fundraising happening? What do you see on that front?
Michael 10:08
The answer is kind of Yes. And there are a variety of different ways where that that works. So, for example, you know, the the Medicaid money is there. But it's, it's the expenditure of it is driven by an action by the state. So, so for example, if, like right now, for example, we're asking the state to fund our DSPs at $15 an hour, we have an organization called tenco. It's a member organization of all the provider agencies throughout the state, we have a lobbyist and, and for them to be able to do that will cost Tennessee $11 million. And the federal government will provide $22 million. If they do that, that $22 million just comes okay. There's no other triggers that have to occur. Other than that, Tennessee approves that $11 million. So the money is there to help with those things. There has been great expansion in the programs there was probably about six years ago, in Tennessee, there was a waiting list of about six to 7000 people for services exactly like we provide because the funding wasn't there. And they expanded it, they started the ECF program. And services have opened up somewhat. The challenge there is that staffing is a challenge. So a person might get approved for services and still not received the support that they need, because there's no staff to provide it now, even though the funding is there. Okay,
Liz 11:39
so what happens? What does the family do in that case?
Michael 11:41
They wait, they wait. Yeah, we have. We have several that are on, you know, kind of internal waiting lists, waiting for us to get the staff to be able to provide the services that they want my son Jacob, in fact, he gets services from Sir toma and from an agency and sphere County where we live called Heartland services. So we live there and I work in Knoxville and once in a while come to Knoxville with me, and he'll go out with him during the day if they're going to do something he he thinks would be fun to do. But he wants to work in severe County where his friends are where he went to high school and sees familiar faces that he knows from time to time. So So Heartland services in since July, they've been so short staffed, they've only been able to help him actively seek employment. Three days. Wow. In that time, yeah. And it's not a reflection on them. It's a reflection on the staffing shortage. So
Liz 12:40
is that the biggest challenge you see right now is staffing shortages?
Michael 12:44
Yes. Yeah, it absolutely is. For so many. For so many agencies, it is the biggest challenge by far.
Liz 12:53
And what about for the actual individuals with the special needs, or most of the challenges that you see, like getting jobs, housing therapy? I know, it clearly depends on what each person's disability is.
Michael 13:06
It depends. In some cases, it depends on age, even in interests. You know, for Jacob housings not an issue, obviously, because he lives with us, and we want him to live with us as long as we're able to provide and care for him. That's our desire. If we've got I heard a horror story just the other day I was we were actually in Nashville this week, lobbying our legislators and talked with one of Senator nicely sphere, county senator and he was telling us about a constituent that he has, she's in her 90s, she has a 77 year old son with a disability. And now she needs to be receiving care, and she's looking to move into a home that can provide care for her. So as a result, her son needs to go into residential care as well, because he can't be supported without someone there to do that. So. So just you know, I try to imagine what that must feel like to have taken care of him for 70 years and be in a position at 90, even you know, if I can take care of Jacob Dylan Nanya, we pretty darn happy but but to be in a position at 90, where you just really don't have an option anymore. You can't provide that care. And my wife deals with that all the time. She she's an estate planning attorney that focuses on special needs. And she has many clients that are in that same exact scenario now where, where the husband maybe has passed away. It's the mom now and she's reached an age where she can't provide or maybe has some deteriorating health issues. She can't provide care for their child with a disability. And they're looking to get services now. And it's just an incredibly challenging thing. Oh, I
Liz 14:48
can imagine from what you see, do you most families, if they have the means and are capable? Do they keep these individuals at home as long as they can once they become adults? Or do they usually go into facilities like you all I
Michael 15:00
think in most cases, I think families they keep they keep and protect their child as long as they can. You know, sir toma is an outstanding agency Heartlands and outstanding agency, I couldn't point a finger at an agency and say they're terrible, but you are only as good as your worst employee. Yeah. You know, and, and we've had some stinkers occasionally over the years. And, you know, even for me, I would feel very comfortable bringing Jacob to Sir toma and having him reside there. But I don't, I don't want that, you know, I want him in there with me and my wife, we, you know, we both agree on that we want him and hang on to him as long as we can. But But there's always a marginal amount of risk, you know, in in, in handling your child that may not be able to discern the intent of somebody, yeah. To receive care somewhere else. And that's a risk that we deal with. You know, it's your job to manage. Yeah.
Liz 16:01
For parents that have children with special needs. What advice do you have for them to prepare their children for adulthood? Start planning
Michael 16:11
long before graduation, you know, if you're going to graduate them at 18, which you can do, or you can keep them in the school system until age 20. To start planning long before, like their freshman year, start asking questions about what happens after they graduate?
Liz 16:26
Who do you ask these questions to?
Michael 16:28
Well, there, there are places you can go, you know, for example, the Autism Society of East Tennessee, you can reach out to them, they have some information on it. There's a great solution in Tennessee called the disability Pathfinder, which is a website you can go to, and they can help navigate and explain what the options are when your child graduates but can help even when they're young to right can can Yeah, and in fact, you know, talking about back just a second to the money, you know, we were talking about the money. There is a new waiver that's opened for younger age children. So when Jacob was a child, the all we had essentially was family support money. And family support is just a small program that exists to help if you have a diagnosis of autism or downs, or whatever the case may be. And it might be $1,000 A year or $1,500 a year. But it definitely helped us with things and help pay for some of his speech therapy and those kinds of things. But now, there's a waiver called the Katie Beckett waiver, that and that opened up in Tennessee, and it is specifically for school aged children. And a great program. I wish it had been around when Jacob was younger. But back to your question, I would get plugged in early with organizations that can help you navigate these things. For me, you know, I plugged in with, we plugged in with a support group, when Jacob was diagnosed and and you have the, you had the benefit of those that have been in these situations for a number of years, that can provide guidance, experience, point you in the right direction. Really networking is a is an incredibly valuable tool, when you have a child with special needs. Because everybody's been through what you've been through and can point you in a good direction.
Liz 18:23
From your personal experience with your son, was there anything that you wish you would have done differently or something that worked really well for you with his care,
Michael 18:31
there are probably things I would have done differently. And I'm not so good at acknowledging imperfections or failures. So none of us are fine. It might take me a minute to come up with him. But I'll tell you, one of the things I did that was really important to me that I think did pay off well. And that was to keep him in the same school system. Because his peer group from start to finish from kindergarten all the way to graduation, his peer group knew him and loved him and supported him. And and that's part of why he is so adamant about working in severe County, you know, because he still sees the faces of his friends from time to time. So I think that was really beneficial for him. And to a child with autism. They don't, they don't like change, and they liked the routine and just transitioning from, you know, primary to elementary and elementary to middle. Those were, those were a hair traumatic for him, but it was still the same faces in the hallways that he could see each time anyway. So
Liz 19:32
was he in special ed classes or ways was in regular classes?
Michael 19:35
Um, a little bit of both. Yeah, he started out. He was totally nonverbal until he was about about four and a half, five years old. We did speech therapy for him for a decade. So until he was 12. We started at about age two. And as his speech developed and and grew he kind of outgrew special ed courses Since in many ways, and by the time he graduated, he was all regular ed classes. But he did have an aide that supported him throughout the day and would keep them on task and just kind of help him navigate the little challenges that showed up along the way. So
Liz 20:14
well, and I talked about, he was saying how important he thinks it is for the kids that are able to, to be in classes with the regular student population not to be separated with special ed classes. And I didn't even know that that was like an issue or anything. I just had no idea. But when he was talking about it, he was like, you know, obviously, you know, what the teacher to have the help that they need and the support, but I was thinking about, I don't have any special needs kids, but I'm pregnant. I may, you know, I have no idea. But as a parent, I want my kids to be helpful and empathetic and loving and not see these people as different. Yeah, clearly, they have differences. And you know, things that hold are holding them back in some facet, but I don't want my kids to treat them differently. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so I, that was just kind of eye opening to me when we'll brought that up. And I was like, That's interesting that you're saying keeping your son and, yeah, that's
Michael 21:12
the terminology, the school systems uses inclusion. And really, from the very start, you know, we'll use it early Will said from age three to 22. And it is correct at age three, literally, when Jacob turned three years old. The next day, we took him to the to the Lawson center and spherule. And he started school, because the Department of Education funds, picking up those children at that age to help give them a jumpstart on being ready for kindergarten. So the true Lawson Center is a preschool, but it's through the school board, the sphere, County Education Department. And does every county have that or something every county does, yeah. In those schools, they have peer models. And often the peer models are teaching the teachers children that are that age or other children from other teachers throughout the school system, they will come in, and they they teach they begin to assist the teachers not knowing they're doing it, but they begin to assist the teachers to educate those children on things as simple as what do we do when we line up? Yeah, you know, will if you've got a bunch of children in there that have a disability and can't, can't verbally express or even receive that instruction on lining up. If you have other children in there that can be models for that. It is really beneficial. So
Liz 22:36
my, one of my friends, her son, he has his arms are shorter. And so he can't do certain things just because his arms are shorter. And she told me this story about they were going to go to Washington, DC. And she you know, she took him to drop him off. And she handed him his two suitcases. And she could just see like the fear overcoming him of how am I going to get these suitcases up all these stairs, and she wasn't going to be going on the trip with them. And one of his classmates who had been with him the whole time came up and like grabbed his bags. It's made me cry. Oh, my kid is that kid one day? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, I? How can parents teach their kids to do that?
Michael 23:15
I don't know. I think that, you know, I think about there are a few children in particular that Jacob grew up with. And I called him his mother, Hans, affectionately, not, not a negative in any way. But they really, they kept Jacob safe. And if you could bottle whatever it was that made them do that. Man, it would be an amazing thing to share. Because not everybody turns out that way, unfortunately. But But I do think, you know, I do think that being in the same school system does help. And that's not always the answer. Because you might be in a school system that just doesn't do as good a job as you could find somewhere else. And there's been plenty of people that have moved around for that. But But no, I appreciate your tears. Because, Michael, because that is such an important thing. You know, for me, it's a blessing to work at Sur toma and be able to use my education and my skills to do what I'm capable of professionally. But for a good cause. Yeah, and it's really meaningful. Yeah,
Liz 24:31
I can imagine I am. I feel like so many things in life, like my kids have taught me more than I'll ever be able to teach them but I was talking to my friend who had this son with special needs. And she was like, He's taught me so much in life. And so I'm like, I want my kids to be around that and learn from them to you know, and appreciate the difference.
Michael 24:53
Yeah, yeah, they're they're really a blessing in disguise. Yeah, I mean, there are some knees, it's difficult. And we're blessed to have Jacob who is an easy, easy child. And there are lots of folks out there that have much more challenging children that they love and care for and do an incredible job. But one of the things I was, I was just thinking about the other day, you know, we're driving back from Nashville, and I've had an opportunity to do so many things. You know, I sit on the Governor's Council on autism and have met and become friends with so many people that I would have never met. And, and I just thought to myself, you know, all the success that I have is not in spite of Jacob. It's as a result of Jacob. Yeah, that's so cool. You know, just his existence has opened so many doors for me, and it's bettered my life. Yeah, in so many ways. Yeah.
Liz 25:50
I'm a Christian. And so I just feel like like, God doesn't mess up. And I can imagine, like, if I found out the baby that I'm pregnant with had special needs, I would probably be like, Oh, my gosh, what am I gonna do? But yeah, God's plan is bigger.
Michael 26:03
It's a process. Yeah, I mean, it's a process I was, I was terrified. I can't lie about that. I was terrified. You know, we had, we had our daughter, and in my wife and I struggled with fertility issues. And, and she came along, and 14 months later, we had Jacob quit and, and our daughter was born. And we, we tried so desperately hard to have this child and everything. And she was perfect. She slept the night through the first night in the hospital. And, and I was like, this being a dad is cake. What Was I nervous about? I'm so good at this, you know, all I do is go to bed, and she gets up when I'm ready to get up and all this stuff, this is easy. And then we had Jacob and he had colic, and was just a very challenging baby. And it was just a complete 180 from what we had experienced with our daughter. And, and it just kind of had me going, Oh, my gosh, there are two sides to this. But But, but even with all that, in some of the some of the bizarre things we went through with him as a child, it's been such a great adventure and a blessing.
Liz 27:20
How can parents or friends, people who do not have children with disabilities? How can they support their friends that do?
Michael 27:28
I think, I think they just need to need to help their children understand that we all have differences. You know, I mean, even even the other kid you see walking down the hall that look completely normal and completely fine. There's something going on with him, too. That's not that far removed from what might be going on from with a child with special needs. And I think we just need to help our children understand that, that we all have differences, and we should just celebrate them in embrace them.
Liz 28:04
100% agree with you. I feel like in every part of life, everybody's gonna be different. Yeah. Sometimes they're challenging, and sometimes it ends up being the best thing ever. So. And it would be a really boring world if we were all the same stuff. Yeah. Can be a really beautiful thing, too. Yeah. Well, do you have any final words of advice or anything that you would like to share to families with or without,
Michael 28:29
you know, I would just encourage them if they have, you know, if it's a family that is either newly diagnosed, or they're about to graduate a child, from high school, reach out to you to find a peer group, reach out to them, and listen to what they have to say, there's so much, so much knowledge that can be passed around from those who have kind of tread the path before you. And it's really beneficial.
Liz 28:59
How did you find your peer group? Did you Google it? Or
Michael 29:02
we we kind of created our peer group? Actually, yeah. So there's so deputy Robert Stouffville, into your county, I think he's a sergeant with the sheriff's department now, maybe even higher than that. But he He has two sons diagnosed with autism and, and then another gentleman, we we all became friends just having met through the through the through Lawson center really, and, and learned about each other, and we formed an autism support group and spirit County. And, you know, we thought were trailblazers and all this. And so we had this first meeting at the library there and, and tons of people showed up, and everybody that showed up seemed like they had so much more knowledge than us. And they were talking about all these experiences and things they hadn't. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, we thought we were doing this for them, but we were doing this and they're going to benefit us, you know, so, but really, there's if you have access to the internet And we all do, you can find ways to get support. And, and often it can be very beneficial just coming from those that are within a very close geographical range to you and can provide you some support and feedback and wisdom.
Liz 30:18
Yeah. Well, thank you so, so much for doing this. If people want to learn more about Sertoma, or any of these other organizations that you've talked about, should they just go to start down my.com? Or there's what were the two other websites you sort of Sir
Michael 30:31
toma.com is the site for the agency where I work, then there's Heartland services in severe County as another agency, there are a lot of agencies in East Tennessee, all Tennessee, but in the immediate area for anybody that is looking for services, and then this disability Pathfinder, you can find it, probably one of the best places to go is the Department of Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities website. But if you go to tn, gov and just search disability, that'll put you on the right path. And then from there, there's links to all different varieties of services you can get connected with.
Liz 31:08
Perfect. I feel like when I've had bad things happen in my life, or something I don't know anything about it just seems like so daunting to even start down the path. But it seems like there are a lot of resources out there now that I never knew about. So
Michael 31:22
there are and it's it's just a matter of discovering them. Yeah.
Liz 31:26
And finding the right people, which the networking thing sounds like it's been huge for you and will and everyone that I've talked to so far. Yeah, absolutely. Sidenote question, as far as your wife services go, at what point do you recommend to family start looking into that kind of estate planning side of things,
Michael 31:44
it's never too late to worry about having a wheel and trusts. And it's probably something I should talk about a little more and haven't really touched on. But when a when a child is diagnosed, when they reach the age of 18, they're eligible for disability benefits SSI, so SSI will pay them and then it's reduced if they're working and cut down and everything but but one of the key components there is SSI measures their benefit based on the assets that they own. And that number has not been changed since I think the 80s, so they can't have over $2,000 in assets. And that's her toma we manage that for about 130 people to make sure that their assets don't exceed $2,000. And the big number that the Social Security ministration looks at is their bank account balance if their bank account balance goes over $2,000 then raises red flags. But so Shawna, what she does is she will help navigate the challenges of setting up a trust, there are special needs trusts, that by their design, the Social Security Administration will not deem any asset held by that trust to be part of what gets measured. So it pushes those to the side. And it says you can have $100,000 in this trust, and we're not going to call it an asset for measurement of their disability benefits. Okay. So there are first party trusts, which is one that would, Jacob has one, it's the Jacob Collins special needs trust. And in that trust, we can contribute Jacob's money, if he's working or has some excess funds, we can contribute his money to that trust, and it's preserved from measurement by the SSI for his benefits, then there's a third party trust and a third party trust is a little bit different. In that it well let me back up the first party trust is subject to one unusual nuance, and that is that Medicaid can recapture the money from that trust when they pass away. Okay, so if Jacob lives to be 70 years old, and over the course of his life, Medicaid is spent $350,000 providing services for him and he has $70,000 in his trust, when he dies, they can come and take that back. Okay, first party trust. A third party trust is created by usually the act of a wheel being executed. So if I pass away, and I and outlive my wife, then that by default will create a third party trust for Jacob where our assets will go into it. It's never subject to Medicaid recapture and calls those are our assets that were willing for Jacobs benefit through this trust. So it's never too early to do that. Because you just don't know when you're going to pass away.
Liz 34:38
What type of attorney do you need? What's it? What is your wife style?
Michael 34:41
She's she's an estate planning attorney, but she focuses on special needs families. So special needs law was kind of her main thing she she can do. She can do trusts and conservatorships and powers of attorney and all those things and then she's, she establishes, she can create a wheel that We'll establish that third party trust upon your passing and direct how those assets are managed even so,
Liz 35:07
if you don't do this with Jacob become a ward of the state. And does he have
Michael 35:11
like a? Well, what it can do is if if, for example, I passed away, Shawna had already been deceased. And I did not have a trust, by law, you know, just through probate, and I'm talking about law stuff here, my wife would be like shut. But just through probate, it would, he would pass to Jacob is one of my heirs, and immediately disqualify him from Social Security benefits. Interesting, assuming that I have over $2,000 in assets when I die, which is my goal, I want to have more than $2,000 in assets, but so so unknowingly, you can damage your child by not taking these actions and preparing for it. Yeah, that's
Liz 35:51
right. Yeah, I had no idea. And then, so if you guys didn't have that setup, who do his care decisions go to though?
Michael 35:58
Well, they, they, they, if we didn't have that setup with where were his conservatorships and have backup conservatorships he would and ward of the state isn't I guess the exactly the right term. But it but it would go that direction, where he would get services, you know, there, we frequently get emergency calls. And Sir Tom, I think we had three emergency calls last week, where where a family was abusive, or there was just nowhere for an adult with a disability to go those kinds of things. In those situations they they can get you set up very quickly on these funding protocols to receive services. And then they have to go through the process to establish what is often a corporate conservatorship where there are entities out there that do that for that's their their work is to be conservators. And sure toma has to work hand in hand with them to provide care for those individuals. So
Liz 36:55
gotcha, my, my husband's on an attorney. So sometimes he has to do like attorney and law item or, you know, elderly people, I don't know if he's done any for special needs. So those are usually appointed by the judge based on the specific circumstances. I didn't know if it was the same for
Michael 37:11
it. It would be Yeah, it would be they would there would be perhaps an attorney or sometimes APS adult protective services involved and they kind of navigate those waters for him. And we have an individual that would probably be coming Mr. Toma right now that's kind of going through that situation. And, and what will happen is we will help them get set up with a trust. There's also something called an ABLE account. That's really great in Tennessee, it functions very much like a trust does, but it has some some little nuances to it. And it's not subject to the Medicare recapture. So it's kind of the new thing. Senator Massie helped get that in place a few years ago. And it's really taken off in terms of its use, but yeah, it the earlier the better in terms of planning, you know, and then and then keep it updated. You know, because what you thought was best for your child and your family 10 years ago, is not best for your child or your family today necessarily.
Liz 38:09
Interesting. And then if people have issues that like they can't find answers for is the best thing just to go to local senators or you know, for now, you can definitely yeah, yeah.
Michael 38:20
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz often they have networking that they can help get you in the right direction. Yeah. Interesting. Mills.
Liz 38:29
Well, thank you so much for this, I have learned so much. And this This is like a whole new world to me. But I think it's so important for people just to have at least a base knowledge of, and one thing I'm trying to do better about in life is like, if there's something that's uncomfortable for me, not avoiding it, yes. But just, you know, ask the questions and try to be a friend like I would with any other topic. Because I've messed up with that before in life where I just like, stopped talking, because I didn't know what to say. And I thought I was gonna say the wrong thing that was more hurtful than just asking the wrong question or wrong thing, you know?
Michael 39:04
Yes. So sorry, I was getting I was picking up my phone. And the reason why is, I'm trying to remember the date for coming friendship dinner. We were talking before that you had attended our friendship in the last year, and I wanted to share that with you. But we've got Danny Wyatt coming this year. And doggone it, my phone has been giving me problems with data the last couple of days. But you may even be able to,
Liz 39:26
it's on your website, I
Michael 39:27
think. Yes. Yeah, that's what I was trying to pull up. But I would I'd be in trouble if I went back and had not and not plugged that
Liz 39:35
in. Yeah, it's really good. It's a fun event. But it also they show a lot of videos of what Sertoma does and how you're actually impacting these people's lives. And I actually I saw a video on yours Instagram the other day, and it was this sweet lady and you were like singing Happy Birthday to her. And she was just like, yeah, crying and I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so sweet. Yeah. Let's see it is May 23 23. Are you? Yes. What else? Thanks to nine,
Michael 40:01
yeah, yeah, then he will be our speaker and it's gonna be a great event. And so, and there's, I think I heard him say there's 20 tables left. So they're kind of going fast. But if you've got anybody that, you know, hopefully we'll see y'all there again. Yeah,
Liz 40:15
we will be. And this is a great organization. So yeah, look them up for sure if you have any interest, and I'm sure people could reach out to you or meet you there if they have absolutely, specifically. Absolutely. Thank you for doing this seriously. And very informative.
Michael 40:29
Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity. All right,
Liz 40:31
everybody. Thank you for joining us for another episode, I'm going to put up some of the information that Michael shared with us on my website at Liz durham.com. So if you ever have any need for this, hopefully at least you could find a couple things there that will lead you to the right people. We hope you join us next time. Being different with Liz Durham is a palm tree pod CO production it's produced and edited by Anthony Palmer. Thanks to Emily miles for digital support. The content for this episode is created by me Liz Durham.